SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

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signality
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:12 pm

SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by signality »

The issue:

Doing this is relatively easy:

connecting channels 1 and 2 from a Behringer UMC404HD 4 channel USB sound card and a Samson Carbon49 MIDI keyboard into SunVox.

but doing this:

connecting channels 3 and 4 in addition to channels 1 and 2 from a Behringer UMC404HD 4 channel USB sound card and a Samson Carbon49 MIDI keyboard into SunVox.

seems to be much harder.

I have a way to make this latter setup work but I would appreciate any help in either

1) confirming that it is the way to do it or in;
2) pointing me to a cleaner or simpler solution.


The background:

This is a long post because the issue needs a clear step-by-step description (I'd do images but for some reason, I couldn't upload more than 3 screenshots despite them being under the size limit individually and in total).

This is how I managed to achieve the easy bit.

With:

The Linux Mint Sound Preferences to use the UMC404HD as my hardware and as the input and output sources.

And:

SunVox
Preferences > Audio
Driver > ALSA
Input > Auto
Output > Auto
Preferences > MIDI > Samson Carbon49 (reselected after every new SunVox power up by power cycling the Carbon49 and then reselecting it in the MIDI list)

I have been able to use:

Channel 1 and Channel 2 of a Behringer UMC404HD 4 channel USB sound card to connect external audio separately into the left and right channels of SunVox Input module and;
a Carbon49 as a keyboard (and a source of MIDI controllers such as glide and pitch bend or using the slider as a volume controller).

Apart from the power cycling and reselecting of the Carbon49 in the MIDI devices list after first starting up SunVox, it all works reasonably smoothly.

The problems began when I found that I could not connect Channels 3 or 4 from the Behringer UMC404HD into the SunVox input module.

I read around the forums including SunVox, linuxmusicians and found various references to alsamixer:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=60
having to use a program called a2jmidid.:
https://warmplace.ru/forum/viewtopic.ph ... d#p15771to
and a similar problem mine:
https://warmplace.ru/forum/posting.php? ... 38#preview

I checked that all 4 channels were enabled in alsamixer and that I could see them all if I started up Ardour (which was an adventure in itself as I have no need to use it so had never had to set it up before). So the problem was that although they were accessible to other software on the laptop, I could not find a way to connect audio from Channels 3 or 4 from the UMC404HD into SunVox.

Having found that the channels were available to Ardour the next step was to try using SunVox with JACK as the Audio driver instead of ALSA

This led to a long diversion into trying the setup on a spare laptop running a fresh install of AV Linux MX-21.2.1. I thought maybe a distro tailored for this sort of task might "just work" but although I could get the audio from channels 3 and 4 into SunVox, I could not find a way to connect the Carbon49 keyboard to it.

After trying to replicate the scripts from AV Linux MX, and their usage from within Qjackctl, back in Linux Mint I eventually found a set of steps that allowed me - without the need for any scripts - to connect any combination of the 4 channels of the UMC404HD into an Input module AND connect the Carbon49 as a key board into SunVox. :)

But it seems like one helluva messy way to have to do it. :o

The steps below* result in a setup that accepts audio from any channel from the UMC404HD and recognises the Carbon49 as the source for MIDI pitch information. I have not yet got as far as trying to access any of the other controller sources from the Carbon49.

The real problem here is that although it all works now, compared to the original 2 channel setup with ALSA driver, this is quite a complicated and time consuming set of steps and I was wondering if there was something obvious that I have missed and that there might be a much simpler solution.

I suppose it might be possible to automate these step but not being a programmer I have no idea how that could be done.

****** START OF STEPS ******

Power up laptop
Switch on Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49
Login
Open Qjackctl
Start Qjackctl
Open SunVox
SunVox > Preferences > Audio > ALSA
Yes (Restarts SunVox)
SunVox > Preferences > MIDI > port (NOTE: this "port" option only appears in the list below the other MIDI sources when Qcackctl is running)
SunVox > Preferences > Audio > JACK
Close
Yes (Restarts SunVox)

Select Qjackctl > Connect
Audio tab
System SunVox
1 In Left
2 In Right
3
4

Select System 1, System 3 and SunVox In Left
Press Connect. (Connects System 1 and System 3 to SunVox In Left)
Select System 2, System 3 and SunVox In Right
Press Connect. (Connects System 2 and System 3 to SunVox In Right)
(Note that System 1 and SunVox In left as well as System 2 and SunVox In right may already appear as being connected).

This connects:
Microphone on UMC404HD Channel 1 connects to SunVox Input Module left channel;
Microphone on UMC404HD Channel 2 connects to SunVox Input Module left channel;
Microphone on UMC404HD Channel 3 connects to SunVox Input Module left and right channel;


MIDI tab
System SunVox
1 Keyboard 1
2

Power cycle Carbon49

MIDI tab
System SunVox
1 Keyboard 1
2
3

Connect System 3 to SunVox Keyboard 1

Carbon49 now plays keyboard notes into SunVox Analog Generator

***** END OF STEPS *******

For info:
I'm running SunVox 2.1c on Linux Mint 21 Vanessa 64-bit Kernel Linux 5.15.0-67-generic x86_64 with MATE 1.26.0 desktop on an HP Z Book G5 31.2 GiB RAM, Intel® Core™ i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz × 12 and Quadro P1000/PCIe/SSE2 graphics via the Nvidia driver.

* In fact, if the scripts are disabled in Qjackctl in AV Linux MX, the steps end up being slightly simpler than for Linux Mint but I'm not sure they are that much simpler to tempt me to replace the whole of Linux Mint or even to triple boot the laptop just to run all my UMC404 and SunVox based music stuff in AV Linux. :)
Last edited by signality on Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leondustar
Posts: 138
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Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by leondustar »

I can confirm that channel selection in ALSA + sunvox can be tricky.
iirc tge easiest for me is changing the default recording device in pulseaudio mixer (and leave sunvox input alone).
Don't forget to change it back if you're using it for conference calls too :).
I think the hardest part of sunvox audio input debugging is: not being able to read the input names (or maximum input number).
Good luck!

ps. I tend to stay away from jack(fiddling) as routing can be timeconsuming, distracting and almost never installed out of the box on linux. Besides being awesome, the extra milliseconds and complexity is not worth my creative time.
signality
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by signality »

iirc tge easiest for me is changing the default recording device in pulseaudio mixer (and leave sunvox input alone).
Thanks for the suggestion. Coukd you give a bit more detail of how to go about that?
I tend to stay away from jack(fiddling) as routing can be timeconsuming, distracting and almost never installed out of the box on linux.
Agree. I have not yet found how to save a setup and get it back after rebooting the laptop. I have read the explanation of how the Patchbay and the Connections relate:

https://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/76

but still haven't got my head round it.

It's disappointing that after so many years of the existence of such a powerful piece of software, it is still so poorly documented.

I just know that setting up the connections in Qjackctl plus the steps to set up SunVox is going to trip me up at an EMOM... :D
signality
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by signality »

For info:

I couldn't make any sense of the command line Pulse Audio mixer, pamix but after installing pavucontrol I have managed to get all four inputs from the UMC404HD into a SunVox input module without having to involve JACK.

However, for some reason that I cannot figure out, despite all four level sliders being set to the same level in pavucontrol and the control knobs, input type and input pad switches in the UMC404HD all being the same levels and settings, the volume levels for channels 1 and 2 from the UMC404HD into SunVox are about 20dB higher than those from inputs 3 and 4 from same source to the UMC404HD into SunVox. The difference in level is so great that I cannot correct for it using the pavucontrol increased levels (up to 153% or +11dB).

This is not what happens when using the JACK setup described above.

Any suggestions to get to the bottom of this would be most welcome thanks.
Last edited by signality on Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Keres
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Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by Keres »

mint is weird. they do things the way they like to and sometimes it breaks stuff. QGIS users will know what i mean.

jackal Pup was fast. Jack worked flawlessly. given that, im prolly gonna try a new(ish) version of Ubuntu Studio next.

i usually use ALSA for high latency TV sound output from firefox and then have jack with Reaper and Sunvox.

also, i find that 2 or more copies of Sunvox can work, but if you cut to a metamodule or something... sunvox configuration file, any MIDI settings, and audio connections just blow up!
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AutumnCheney
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Location: tahlequah, ok, usa
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Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by AutumnCheney »

i haven't tried using any external equipment other than my midi controllers, but sunvox with pipewire on pop!_os works flawlessly it seems, no matter what i do

maybe try that?
my website: https://acheney.xyz

it features my music, sunvox content, and social media links!
eufex
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:10 pm

Re: SunVox + Behringer UMC404HD + Samson Carbon49 + Linux

Post by eufex »

I’d sY install Ubuntu studio. Jack just works. Do your routing via Carla easy leafy jobsagudun
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