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Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:08 am
by El Nino
A global groove / swing in the output module? MPC style groove. These are quotes about swing from Roger Linn ( creator of MPC ):

"Swing – applied to quantized 16th-note beats – is a big part of it. My implementation of swing has always been very simple: I merely delay the second 16th note within each 8th note. In other words, I delay all the even-numbered 16th notes within the beat (2, 4, 6, 8, etc.) In my products I describe the swing amount in terms of the ratio of time duration between the first and second 16th notes within each 8th note. For example, 50% is no swing, meaning that both 16th notes within each 8th note are given equal timing. And 66% means perfect triplet swing, meaning that the first 16th note of each pair gets 2/3 of the time, and the second 16th note gets 1/3, so the second 16th note falls on a perfect 8th note triplet. The fun comes in the in-between settings. For example, a 90 BPM swing groove will feel looser at 62% than at a perfect swing setting of 66%. And for straight 16th-note beats (no swing), a swing setting of 54% will loosen up the feel without it sounding like swing. Between 50% and around 70% are lots of wonderful little settings that, for a particular beat and tempo, can change a rigid beat into something that makes people move. And unlike the MPCs, my new Tempest drum machine makes it very easy to find the right swing setting because you can adjust the swing knob in real time while the beat plays. I first introduced swing – as well as recording quantization – in my 1979 drum machine, the LM-1 Drum Computer.

Regarding sequencer resolution, the LM-1 – used on all of those early hits by Prince, Michael Jackson, and many others – had a sequencer resolution of 48 parts per quarter note. (48 parts per quarter note permits swing variations of 50, 54, 58, 60, 62, 66, 70 and 75%, and I rarely need more swing increments than this.) The Tempest has a resolution of 96 parts per quarter note but almost all of the great grooves it makes don’t use more than 48 parts per quarter note resolution and often no more than 24.

In considering how to compress swing-time beats, it occurred to me that this could be done by delaying the playback of alternate 16th notes, and by varying the amount of delay I could vary the degree of swing. And so the swing feature was born, which in 1979 I called ‘shuffle’.

The interesting thing I’ve found in the past about real-time drum machine sequencing without quantize is that many say they want it but few ultimately use it, finding better results by switching between quantize settings, which also permits use of swing degrees.

I think even the best drum machine players might have trouble playing a 58% or 62% swing beat in real time without quantization."

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:21 am
by queries
Here is a guide to adding swing to a SunVox project using existing features: ... swing.html

I tend to use the first method, where you globally set the swing by adjusting the TPL repeatedly in a pattern, then you clone the pattern across the length of your project.

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:31 am
by El Nino
Thanks for the guide. Awesome! nice tutorials.
I think you have detailed 48ppqn swings (not 96ppqn) in the very first part of the guide.

Now that I have this technique I will no longer have a problem when sampling swung patterns from G stomper ( which has % slider for swing ) or renoise ( which has % slider or tracker delay commands ), or littlegameparktracker ( tracker delay commands ).

"Dont mean a thing if dont swing"

Everything sounds so much more alive with the swung timing.

Now I'm thinking of how to get the same swings into the LFO

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:56 pm
by El Nino
+ for global groove slider ( could go in the output module )

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:02 am
by queries
In the SunVox tradition of allowing the user to take things to certain extremes, I suggest that if a global groove were implemented, make sure you can use negative values too. This is something that BeatMaker 3 supports on the iPad and although I'm not a huge fan of that app overall, it did let me create some interesting rhythms to use negative swing.

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:19 am
by Keres
you know you can also alternate between delay and dry and have a slider for the delay time to get close to the same thing... it's not perfect for certain things like pads and vocals but it works well with electronic drums and basses. the advantage is that you don't have to screw up your timing for things like LFO's if you work in tics and you can have different swings on different things ;p

Re: Global Groove / Swing

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:55 am
by purelygrey
That would be nice, per pattern setting would be pretty fun too (but that's probably going to be more complicated to implement).

Personally I switched to using 40…5F note delay effects instead of delaying by ticks, it maybe a little tedious to punch in at first but it's definitely the way to make things sound more alive :)