trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

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walkinggoat
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:23 pm

trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by walkinggoat » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:08 pm

Hello,

I am a new SunVox user and in attempting to make my first song i've run into something i don't understand.

Could someone please explain why when attempting to control f. freq automatically with control data on the same track as my notes the output is unexpectedly quiet in for the lower part of the range (around $2000). I understand that a f. freq close to zero will cause silence, but 2000 should not. When i put control data on another track the output is as expected; the same as if I vary the controller and play notes manually.

So why is analog synth output quiet when i put f. freq control data on same track as notes?

thanks in advance!

iaon
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by iaon » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:48 am

Filter freq is available as a 'local controller' in the Analog Generator, meaning it can be set either seperately for any note or globally when it's not tied to a note event. When setting it for individual notes you'll notice the slider's not moving during playback and tweaking it will still affect the sound, similarly to how the Velocity column and the Volume controller combine to make up a note's volume.
If a Synth has local controllers they're listed in the Module info pane.
And of course there's a bunch of other settings that help determine how the filter behaves.

walkinggoat
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by walkinggoat » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:34 am

thanks for the info, I believe i understand, I'm not sure it answers my question though.

So from what i gather, if the controller available locally, you can set it differently for as many notes playing on a module at the same time as you like. Is this correct?

In this instance though I’m working with a simple pattern, playing one note at a time on the analog generator w/default setup (through vib. echo compressor). I interpolated values from 1900 to 5000 and back down again for the f. freq controller but when I play the pattern, the first half of the range is silenced.

I then created a new pattern and put the controller data (same as before, interpolated between 1900 and 5000 and back again) in a pattern of its own, this gave the results i had expected, all notes sounding through out the range of controller settings.

So why was half of the pattern quiet the controller data was on the track with the note events.

also, I should note that in the playback of _both_ methods of setting the controller (on one track and with separate pattern) the slider did move the same throughout the specified range of settings.

walkinggoat
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by walkinggoat » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:53 pm

I'm afraid my explanations are less than clear. I'm including my example file now, just mute the patterns labled Ex 2 to play Ex1 and vice versa.
You should find that in playing example two, with control data included on track w/ note events, half of the pattern is silenced. And while Ex. 1 does accomplish my goal, it would be preferable to me not to have to make a separate pattern with control data.

thanks again and sorry if i'm just being dense. I would really like to figure this out.

walkinggoat
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by walkinggoat » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:03 pm

sorry so many posts, trouble tyring to attach file. I don't think that it is working for me.
here is a link to example file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1uDMn ... sp=sharing

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Saltbearer
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by Saltbearer » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:54 pm

Per-note controller values are relative to the module's controller value.
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iaon
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by iaon » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:27 am

Your understanding of the local thing is right, some of what I said is particular to Filter freq; the global value for Waveform for example won't affect a note for which the waveform is set locally.

If you look closely (or lower the tempo) the slider in ex 2 is stopping at every note start and continues on the next line. You're effectively setting the global Filter freq on every line except those with note events. For every line both the last set global value and the local one(s) set for the currently playing note(s) affect the sound. The global value determines the range for the per-note values, as Saltbearer pointed out. Also, 'exponential freq' is on, so 2000 isn't literally 2000 Hz.

To get ex 2 sounding like ex 1, try removing the module number for every line without a note event and set the slider to the maximum value.

In the case of ex 1 you can put the commands on another track, seperate patterns are not necessary.

I see the manual does include the module number for every line in the local controllers example but in my experience it needs to be omitted after the note event, can anyone confirm this is an error in the manual?
Last edited by iaon on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

walkinggoat
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by walkinggoat » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:14 am

thank you, I am beginning to understand. Thank you for the example, saltbearer, great stuff to learn from.

wow you guys are great, I walked away from a post for a while in which I was attempting to articulate this very thing iaon, and when i tried to post, bam, there it was, your articulate explanation.

Personally i would prefer if local controller setting behaved as documented, just for the ease of not having to delete module values on sustain steps after interpolating.

iaon, is this your experience with all local controller values, module must be omitted? in all modules?

thanks for the tip about using another track, much easier.

iaon
Posts: 197
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Re: trouble controling analog synth f. freq w/ control data

Post by iaon » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:24 am

Yes, I'm pretty convinced it should be this:

Code: Select all

NN VV MM CCEE XXYY
C3 80 01 0200 0000  //Set local controller 2 to value 0000. Separate sound begins playing here
-- -- -- 0200 0001  //Set local controller 2 to value 0001
-- -- -- 0200 0002  //Set local controller 2 to value 0002
-- -- -- 0200 0003  //Set local controller 2 to value 0003
-- -- -- 0200 0002  //...
-- -- -- 0200 0001
The advantage is you can set a controller either globally or locally on the same track where a note is playing.
Continuous global changes should go on a seperate track for controllers that can be local.
For global only controllers you can also omit the module number after the note on, there it won't make a difference.

Interpolation fills the selection with the module number in the first line, I guess you could either delete it, interpolate and write it back in or interpolate a second time from the second line with the module number removed.

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